thank you Brenda, i never know if i've gone too far & don't want to sound pushy... i just luv my PSP & if i can help someone with it then i just can't stop myself from saying so... i have learned a lot about the program by using it to create my own frames... before i showed up over a year ago, i don't think many photographers here were using them, it was a way for me to learn different techniques & be more creative i have the link you provided open in another window, there's some real beauties there... i'd be very tempted to try them... but as she says they must not be claimed as our own work & should probably give her credit if we were to use one... thank you so much! i shall go explore it bit more :D & if there's anything i can help you with, feel free to ask... also they have PSP tutorials here at RR as well as the Jasc homesite & many others now, when Raven wakes up he can tell us just what he did to your pic cuz i'm curious to know too, ...always learning :] hugz cindy