it was kinda hard to follow, but as im new at this, ill let myself off easy :) it wasnt until i scaled up the grouped objects that you could actually make out a waterfall/river scene... so im left to believe its a scale issue im having.... it also never dawned on me to "raise" the water plane... one more thing. the default view... its called the director camera. is this camera supposed to mimic an average persons visual scope?!? meaning, is it set up to be as if you are looking out from an averages persons head? it sounds silly, but it does make a difference. (as opposed to looking out from an ants visual scope, hence the reason to enlarge items...) even better, are we supposed to switch to the other camera, and use that as our "eye"... thanks again people, all the help is REALLY appreciated.