AAARGGH! geez for the past month i have been toiling day in and day out learning the the basics of 3dmax and I get this? bryce 6? noooooo! ehehehe actually im a big fan... on terrain design and grphics... this would be the best there is (it is still even on ver 5) especially with all that thingees! and updates! WWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWO that would even work greater if it could be incorporated in max thnx scott! eyecon