Well, no rickymaveety, I disagree. We discuss everything Bryce here even its ability to import outside formats and their parent programs. You will find that most people who use Bryce either import their models from outside sources usually in ".obj" or ".3ds" format and then build their scenes around that, or they just need outside models to populate their scenes. Together with that comes all the problems associated with that process. So as you will often find here in this forum, people asking questions on how to import this format or another, so yes, it does become part and parcel of the Bryce forum to discuss these other products. Further, as has also been pointed out on many occasions, all these 3rd party programs become part of your graphic tool kit, your palette if you will, and therefore becomes an opened topic of conversation around here, just take a quick look through the forum messages. No one here has suggested you stop using Bryce as a modeler. Neither is anyone suggesting that it's impossible to model complicated objects using Bryce. What does come into questioned is the ease, efficiency and time economics of using Bryce as a modeler. Further, keep in mind that Bryce was never intended to be a full featured modeling program. In your statement above posted earlier you say; it's so very easy to do octagonal shapes in Bryce!! All you do is multireplicate a rectangluar cuboid around its y axis. 3 replications rotated at 45 degrees. And, frankly, I would have to say that clicking a button once and extruding the same shape is faster and at the end, its still the same shape. Nothing different about the two shapes, not in appearance anyway, so what would set them apart? Time, time conservation sets them apart. One shape is not any better than the other, its the same shape but one is more costly when you figure in time and probably in this case, the number of polygons that make up the shape. Once you go into graphics as a career, it is understood that speed is of the essence. You cant be lounging around at home like some great maestro waiting for a brainstorm to pass you by. There will be deadlines to meet, client meetings to attend, progress reports to go in and brainstorming sessions to attend with venue changes going on all the time. It can be a very non-fun situation with plenty of stress to go around with late nights up at the computer. If and when you get into a modeling program and you become proficient at it, chances are that you will never see Bryce modeling the same again. After all, Bryce, in realizing their modeling shortcomings, added the options to import from 3rd party programs.