Just one small thing BH because I agree with most of what you say. The programmers, owners and people working at CL were in the beginning and towards the end, the same people who worked on Poser at Metacreations. So, following that logic (as they're one and the same team) if Metacreations had kept it and advanced it to Poser 5, it would still be the same as it is now. Because the same people did it. Check the list of credits for Poser 3, 4 and then for Poser 5 as a comparison some time. You might be surprised how many names are recurring. Also, Steve Cooper and Weinberg at CL are the same Steve Cooper and Weinberg from Metacreations. Mr. Weinberg being the original programmer and owner of Poser (1 and 2) before Metacreations messed up Poser 3 and released 4 as a bug fix for 3. Not picking on you, but Metacreations weren't quite as innocent as they seem. Seperately, not to hijack the thread I see the buyout of CL by E-Frontiers as a good thing. Personally I am exstaticly happy that Poser is out of the hands of CL (or hopefully is) and that a company with at least some programming ability has got hold of it. Shade is an excellent modelling package. If (and it's a big if) they fix Poser and integrate that more closely with Shade - (and by proxy Vue d'Esprit) releasing US/European versions of Shade I won't be sorry at all. The chances that they'll incorporate daffy tools into Poser when they already have a modelling/rendering package is unlikely. The chances that they'll continue to develop and support Poser are very high. The future is bright. CL is dead. Time to party.