"You never get to the top. You are constantly fighting the program even after years of experience" -- I'm sorry but this is just not true. I do mean that with the most respect though. Anton I love your stuff... and all the other disclaimers and such that may keep me from getting flamed. ;) I do REALLY respect the fact that this thread has remained civil enough that I would consider posting in it. -- I think that DAZ is finding out how hard it really is to put out a software product. Lemme tell you... It is a huge can of worms. Every time you fix something you have taken the chance of (and probably have) broken 2 or 3 things. I'm not kidding. You're like "The programers only fixed the keyframe glitch. How the hell did it break joints, break rendering shadow maps AND break saving texture settings on save"? Before anyone goes there... No it is not Poser's crap coding (as it's being called). I'm not kidding when I say I've done QA on approx 25 graphics apps between working at RayDream, Fractal, MetaCremations and Curious Labs. It's a very intricate ballancing act. Now... what the hell was I saying? Oh yeah! DAZ is most likely finding problem after problem after problem that makes D/S not usable. Comming from a guy who has done this crap for years I can say I feel bad for them. Puting out a quality product like DAZ does with models is hard in its own right. Software is harder. Joe