I remember the gingerbread tut... vaguely. Meanwhile, I did nab PhilC's mesh, figuring that I could bring it into Carrara someday and create some females which wouldn't look quite so much like the current "standard of beauty". I wish that he'd do a male too. (I've drawn vikings and knights for decades and they are too different from the wimps and the football freaks sold now... so I'll have to do my own.) A good tutorial on poserizing the resultant mesh might get me to pushing those vertices into position. Carolly