when someone takes up modelling they tend to look at the underlying mesh in a scene. the more i learn about topology, and edge loops and stuff, the more that all the vicki's in the hot 20...lately all i've had time to browse...look exactly the same. afterall they are all the same underlying mesh and that clearly shows, no matter what texture they are painted into. that's just me. that's how i see things. yet, i thoroughly enjoy some of the real masters of postwork...those have the vicki mesh camoflaged enough to actually look like a painting. there is a huge thrill to making your own model. and, maybe some of you would think differently if you tried it yourselves and actually managed to succeed. folks seem to be having good luck modelling with the free wings. if you try and don't succeed, try with another modeller. honest, making something that is all yours, from scratch is the BEST...then envisioning textures, and, a locale for it. makes me feel like a goddess, it does. and, and, and...omg...i could never win a Poser forum challenge to save my life...shoot i have scarcely ever made the hot 20 in the years i've been here. well, winning challenges in the rhino and lightwave forums have been the high spots of my time here, at renderosity. i even have a coffee mug :*) so, please, don't denounce modelling as something you "can't" learn, or don't care to learn before giving it a chance...i don't even play with my poser anymore...haven't even installed any vicki's since my crash back in august.