I understand where your coming from now BabaLouie and agree with Ricky that your "second post is much more rational and well thought out". The problem is I think, is that we have friends here and who do people normally go to to express their problems with, but with their friends. It can come over as moany, but I feel that if it's only now and again then we can all make some small exceptions. And don't forget that some adults are more childlike than children. lol 8) Catlin