Hm, last night, the internet went down when I tried to post to this thread....and that was the 2nd attempt. I think it's a conspiracy;) A Public wishlist with photos is an excellent idea....not just for me, but for deerpath, judith and all the others. Here is a quick post of some details that I've been able to manage using wings3d. I'm especially proud of the way the leaf wraps around the inner segment. I could never have accomplished this with xfrog. Also, it's a character and each segment is a body part (so theroetically it would be posable) Currently, it falls apart when you pose, but it's a start:) eric BTW, I did try a pansy, and failed misreable. However, I think the plant shape itself is simple enough, I just couldn't get xfrog to give me leaves that looked good. It might be worth trying again with wings, though.