Kendra, I absolutely agree with you. Poser packages have become so bland in some ways. Mainly because a lot of users demand ready-to-go MATs. Poses, etc, etc. I read a thread recently where someone was complaining because he had to tweak the poses in a package he'd bought to get them the way he wanted them. Which, to me, seems a bit over the top. But.... having said that, I still maintain that if merchants are showing something they're not supplying, they should say so. There's no shame in using other products or lights. Just tell me about it, is all. Whether you'd want to recreate the original image or not is beside the point. The point is that showing stuff that isn't included is misleading, and in any other medium, would come under false advertising. Third point. I firmly believe that most intelligent poser users do NOT want the same renders as everyone else. They want to personalise their images wherever possible. (I may be mistaken here, but I'm an optimist). This involves learning how to use the program. So, every product I put out now has a large help file (The last one was 33 pages. The new one is 23 pages). It's not because the products are that complicated, but I include a lot of other related information that I think people will find useful. Yes, I provide MATs and SETs to texture and configure things. But I also have a short tute on how to modify these files or make your own. So, to sum up, I agree with the original post, but I'm also with kendra. Poser is becoming too easy and automatic. But the best way round that, IMO, is to educate the user as much as possible. (without being patronising or getting into 'back-to-school' stuff). I try to point out all the possibilities that my products have for individual configuration, show people how to do it, then let them decide what they want to do. There's always the easy option of clicking a MAT file. mac