Thanks for the comments. Sounds like the wrinkles are a head so far... They are a pain to model but I'll give it a go after I finish tweaking these up for Vicki. Jagger - Agreed I could do both versions with the same model but my personal preference is make two versions. That way I can use them in my other animation applications. Since I have the basic mesh it wouldn't be hard to modify for the P4Male. I'll put that on the todo list. -Byron