thanks for all the enthusiasm, guys! makes it all worthwhile. Storm, did you have to remind me of the Bay City Rollers. Scotland's national embarrassment! Us Scots have been trying to live that one down for years! Now I'll keep thinking about them...eugh! ironbear.....duhhh....what? I'm still olaying with Bryce 2, the free one I got from a magazine! I dunno.. any thoughts on this one, anyone...it occurred to me that using tex maps, you can put creases, folds and shadows on clothes. have been playing with it (a basic pleated skirt) but I need to think of a way to make it realistic. maybe my next project, I'll see how it goes. ther best to all maclean