If a TRUE Bryce RENDER is a Bryce image that is not altered after it is rendered in Bryce. .

Then a TRUE Bryce IMAGE is an image that is free of all imports with all objects and models being constructed inside Bryce using primitives or terrain/lattice objects. . . .

Only a TRUE Bryce IMAGE could be used to create a TRUE Bryce RENDER.

Therefore, very few True Bryce RENDERS are being produced at the present time with or without postwork.

Note: Sometimes I wonder why so many individuals make such a fuss about post work on Bryce images but have no objection to importing models into their scenes. Postwork can be considered a true representation of an artist's skills and knowledge. . . . a personal touch!!

I'm sort of new here, so I'm relatively unexposed to this controversy of idealogues. For myself, I consider Bryce, Poser, Vue, whatever, the beginning of the image. Sure it may take Bryce a day or so to render, but that's the beginning of the work for me. I often will render 2 or three different aspects of the image and composite them, then work on them from there. As a matter of fact, the whole concept of "post-work" is odd to me, since I usually consider the renderings "pre-work." Sometimes I'll render an image that I'm happy with or I'm too lazy to goof with, but that's rare. Heck, I even fool around with the WIPs. Face it: Bryce, Poser and other 3D programs are great, but they just don't do what you want them to do sometimes. Can't limit yourself to the limitations of software. "Pure" Bryce is great if it's what you want, but don't let that stop your creativity! My 2 cents worth, anyway

I do a lot of "pure" Bryce work, but mostly I do it because I enjoy modeling in Bryce. For me, it's fun. It's an intellectual challenge to create a complex object completely in Bryce. However ... and this is a BIG however ... I don't consider myself an artist and I certainly don't make my living as one. I like to know if something is mostly Bryce or mostly imports and post work simply so I have some small idea whether I can learn something about Bryce from that artist. If it's beautifully lit in Bryce, then I can learn comething about lighting ... if the lighting is all post work, then I can't. What I think is wrong is to denigrate a good piece of art just because it wasn't all done with one program. It's sad to see anyone doing that.

It's the finished article that is the work of art. or not, as the case may be, everything else we use are just the tools to get to the finished piece. I've made many images that were pure Bryce, then again I've made many images that had everything from imported models to a couple of different programs for postwork. Whatever it takes to make the image something that you feel is worthy to be shown is ok. It's the same as painting a picture, I didn't always use a brush to paint the canvas, sometimes I used my hands, bits of wood, syringes, or whatever was lying around to apply the paint. Catlin

i agree with cat. I bet you used other body parts too :P

Since I'm in the Fractal arena as well..there is the same feeling over there. These types of arguments can go on and on ad nauseum. Personally, I do up my art to please me and if some others like it as well, so much the better. :-)

Here's an example of my take on all this .... I don't own Poser or anything else that will generate figures. This image was completely modeled and rendered in Bryce. The ONLY post work was the addition of the cat and his paw prints in the snow. Now, by Shonner's logic, the addition of the cat makes this a PSP image rather than a Bryce render ... a position I personally find absurd. Sometimes you simply do not have the tools to allow Bryce to do the whole job by itself. (And, yes, I suppose I could have put the cat on a plane and posed it in the scene then rendered it, but that's splitting hairs to the nth degree.)

Nuski, I agree! Following that logic then Bryce should get rid of the import function all together. If the same logic would be held mandatory in the Bryce gallery, the gallery would be virtually empty of images and Ive said that before! Most, if not all images that you would get would be basically empty, lifeless terrain scenes with mostly inorganic objects in them because most people would not be able to model a human or animal figure using only Bryce. Ive read some of those posts that try to quantify the whole thing scientific-like by giving such preposterous formulas as 50% of this and 30% of that and the other and I have to wonder, who sits down to figure all this nonsense out? I mean, where is it written in stone that this is the way it must be? I dont see that written anywhere in the manual or in Rosity TOS, but then again I dont see much of anything in the manual. :) If you personally see a challenge which may prove rewarding to you in any shape or form in creating an entirely Bryce image and you choose to pursue it, by all means, knock yourself out and give it a shot! In fact, I would highly recommend that you do. It will no doubt serve to push both yourself and Bryce to a higher limit and can only help perpetuate the legend that Bryce is and most of us already faithfully know with no proof needed. But we mustnt imply restrictions upon ourselves unnecessarily. We as artists must be set free to experiment and explore freely with everything at our disposal to achieve those creations we aspire to. We must un-harness our creativity to achieve new levels. BTW, Ricky, beautiful scene youve got going there. LOLwhat forum are you going to post it? ;)

As Ricky pointed out-"Sometimes you simply do not have the tools to allow Bryce to do the whole job by itself." . . . . .

A painter has the option of using a paintbrush to change every surface characteristic of the painted image, such as placing highlights and shadows, playing soft edges against hard edges, blending in a complimentary color here or there for visual contrast. All these artistic choices are lost to a great extent when rendering an image in a 3d software program. Postwork on an image allows the artist to change the rendered image into a complete and personal vision. I am certain that at some point in time every artist looks at one of their 3d renders and thinks to themselves that sometime was missing. . . . .the personal touch!

Thanks, Quest. I already posted it to my gallery as a Bryce image a while back. Shocking, I know, but there you have it.

Imagine going to an art gallery where all the prints were done with Bryce. Do you think the non-Bryce folks (people who never even heard of Bryce) would give a sh*t if the image was postworked, or models imported? Nope! All they'd be concerned with was whether or not they liked the image. Of course, get some Brycers in there and it would be chaos...

I am completely a Bryce purist. There is nothing in any of my images that you will see that was not done completely by me. (I even go out of my way to make it so that I'm not copying people). But that's because i'm obsessive about being original. But still, I have nothing against people using imported stuff, or free stuff, and especially not postwork. Really, I'm cool with whatever. The only thing that bugs me is when people feature ONLY something that wasn't made in Bryce, that they got in some freestuff somewhere, and don't give credit, and everyone is all going "oh wow! In bryce? You're amazing!" and they're in the hot 20 and everything ,and you're like wanting to yell at them, "Hey! Guys! They didn't make this!" But yeah. Let's all eat a twinkie Weiner Sandwhich.

I don't think I'm a purist at anything. LOL. Eventhough I sometimes make "pure Bryce" projects, I always feel like postworking, it's so much funner, and much more personal. I sometimes wish I could put my hands in there and fingerpaint on my Bryce renders.