Marque- Aww I didnt think you were accusing me of anything, sorry if it came across that way :( I just deleted the pack files from my runtime and will be trying the files in my c drive runtme folder I use to zip my packs. Im hoping it was the zip that was corrupted. I finally found the proper download for the P3do and it still isnt working out sigh I have the psd files of the thumbs, but I've already tried remaking the thumbs with them ( saving to png, then to rsr via p3do) and it isnt helping. I feel like Im missing something pretty basic here and its making me wonky :P takes the suggested breth and hunts for coffee so she can try again