I agree that the "Poser challenge" should be a Poser challenge, not a contest that allows postwork or other renderers. That's not such an extreme purist rule, and it's not a matter of eliminating unfair advantages, just of comparing apples to apples. All sorts of outside apps are involved pre-render: the modelling program that created the props and figures, the 2D that created the image maps, etc. They can't reasonably be eliminated. And having enough money to purchase Vickie 3 and "Vickie's Dream Temple," as well as "Vickie's Disco Rags" and "Vickie's Pretty in Pink Porsche" and "Vickie's Ultra Extreme, Hell-Spawned Bigger Sword Than Can She Can Possibly Lift" is certainly an "unfair advantage" nobody can quantify, so it's not an issue. The idea is simply, what can you get Poser to do. So no other renderers, no Photoshop postwork on the oowies. I think the distinction between running the pz3 through, say, Carrara and running it through Photoshop is fundamentally arbitrary. If one is not allowed, the other shouldn't be either. And I say this understanding that I'm pretty much eliminating myself from any competition, because I specialize in composites. And PS: What earthly argument could anyone make for calling the P5 renderer (Firefly) an outside product?? Get a grip. Or call the contest the Poser 4 Rendering Challenge. M