"Oh give it a rest guys. You all sound like Bart Simpson at Sunday School." Not so. :-) Most of the questions asked and objections raised have been expressed in a well-reasoned and civil manner. As just one example, read caravaggio's post, #13. Very well said, perfectly adult and civil. Nothing "Bart" about it at all. This is not a whiner's thread, at least not at this point. The problem is that Spike's reminder didn't just drop out of the sky, there HAS been an increase in totally off-topic posts here, but there's also been an ongoing problem with the way that some of the staff, sometimes, addresses the membership. It had alienated many, both regular members and merchants alike. Perhaps there should be a member-generated thread titled "Attention all forum moderators" detailing reminders that we make this site what it is just as much as they and the merchants do, and deserve to be treated like free-minded adults. Before I rant on, a brief disclaimer: I am definitely not singling Spike or any other single moderator or admin out. There isn't a single past or present Poser forum mod whom I haven't basically liked and appreciated. My point is general, and IMO valid. Lemurtek's post, #33 ... brilliant, that surmised the defensive part of my reaction as well. Although I've been frustrated by the large number of very off-topic postings here lately, it hasn't been that big of a deal. We're real people with complex personalities. Annoying though they might be, the off-topic postings are a sure sign that we ARE a community of real people, not just robots using Poser. The truly off-topic ones usually get moved to appropriate forums, anyway. Is that so awful? What's far more frustrating and demoralizing is the fact that too frequently, the staff takes on a condescending, sort of "exasperated babysitter" attitude with the membership in this forum. Instead of threatening us, maybe the good moderator folks should take a long, harsh look at their own treatment of this community, the tone that they assume and set. It's been more and more of an issue for a long time, now, as most of us know. Several people this thread have made good points about the difference between "debate" and "argument." Reasonable, non-abusive "bickering" and "argument" are NORMAL, sometimes even healthy, and above all, inevitable. The more the mods act like babysitters or cops, the more this forum is degraded. Maybe we members really do need to moderate ourselves better, but our sometimes-feisty personalities cannot be turned totally off or effectively censored. From what I've seen, the real problem with interpersonal abuses have been in the Off Topic and Copyright forums. Far more so than here. But you knew that. :-)