... does the Poser 4 hand use the P4 or P3 dork texture, or what? (IIRC Dork and Posette's textures about the same, ain't they?) I ask because this one is really, really boring to me. But, in the meanwhile, maybe we should consider that the occasional (and maybe semi-constant) OT stuff is the stuff of life. No one wants to sit around and talk about the same old thing over and over again. It gets old. It gets boring. And it turns folks off. Kate's right... hold on loosely and things will settle into a routine that everyone can get cozy with. Hold on too tightly and things just get worse. (appropriate flags set for the overly anal ;) ) /P