The one thing that stops most folks from using POV is the lack of a decent interface. Make that, an easy to use interface. Something simple, because most people like to think about what they are making, not how to do it. It is not a "better" engine than firefly -- it's just different. Each of them supports certain functions that the other does not, and, as noted, if they work, cool. I like Poseray, but I've used it less and less with what firefly offers me. I do a lot of special effects and stuff, and you know, the scripts to do what I do take forever to create, forever and a day to render, and still don't look as good as the stuff it takes me 15 minutes to setup in firefly or the old p4 renderer. The lighting, however, is much better. When someone creates an interface for POV that lets me use my 3000 pixel textures with a preview and the ability to modify them without typing in some pretty damned arcane math forumlae, I'll be thrilled (provided it can render faster -- POV is slower than firefly on the same images). And I have asked for a POV exporter. I think it would be cool. But do I want it in poser? No. Not at all, not in any way. As well, based on the licensing for it, neither do the folks developing POV, since CL is a for profit company, and really, really unlikely to opensource their hard work. Open source is not a viable business model for them at this time. If they open source the core aspects of Poser, they lose the ability to license it, since the programs primary file formats are entirely text-based. Training videos at this point would do them no good -- they can't lock the market there, and anyone willing to put in the time at present can learn about every single feature of poser 4 simply by reading whats been collected and created already. Invading DAZ's turf through open source isn't wise. DAZ is not making D|S open source. Claiming the higher ground will simply allow the competetion -- which is still developing at this point -- access to the very core elements that they are trying to mimic -- gee, does that make reverse engineering easier or what? About the only way right now CL will make money from content is if they hire the best and the brightest from the shops that currently exist. They have been trying to set up the system for it, but it seems folks really, really hate the uselessness of Content Paradise. You are right, they need to invade back, and, in true business wisdom, leverage what they do have already up so that they can gain a foothold in a market that they have not been involved with. This is pretty serious stuff, mind you -- it will require them to create stuff that is not just the same old same old and takes advantage of very specific features within Poser. This is Not easy to do when the bulk of the "names" aren't real fond of you, lol. side note: Content Paradise was the first step CL made. Was it before or after D|S? hee hee Also, I'll note that the lighting system in poser itself would not be fixed by POV incorporation -- anymore than it was by adding firefly. No, that's an issue that requires reworking internally within poser. And I agree -- the things I wish for most are lighting based. Oddly enough, firefly has a lot of lighting based aspects to it, and Shade (which, btw, has all of the features of POV and almost all of of firefly, and is better, and runs, in "pro form" about 1500 bucks) has the lighting system that I would like to see. (puts on thinking cap. Gee, licensing costs just went way down) lastly, just cause I gotta after all this, I wanna say that I really, really want a point light.

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)