heyas; i know what you mean, kate, i was messing with the bump for that, trying to get it right. in the preview there were less smeary lines, so i thought i almost had it. maybe i will try a vertical bump instead.... mike, i can usually get what i want for the distance effect using haze and fog. but the fog kinda lightens the shadows, too :/ the sand is brighter than the sun?? oh! you mean the sandstone thingy the guy and cat are standing on? um, er, that's lit by the torches, yeah! ;) thanks, guys. dunno if i'll be messing with it, though; got two other things going relatively well for the zygote contest... and just found out the measurements the rules give are wrong, so gotta re-change my composition again... ::sigh:: how bout you guys, are you doing anything for the zygote calendar contest? how about the ripple effect halloween contest?