What would REALLY help is if someone could do a sample walk-thru of a flame creation... One of you talented guys like Rykk, Tres or Dream Warrior. LOL I am on the Apo list, and I do read the posts, until my eyes glaze over because I'm SO lost in the technical jargon of Fractalish. I know the possibilites are pretty much unlimited, but a good "this is how you come up with a basic sprial" or "this is how you get an image that doesn't look like a line drawing" (as all of mine save a couple of happy accidents do. grrrrr!) would go a long way for me. Most of the other fractal programs out there that I've found have at least one "walk through" tutorial that creates one good-looking example of what the program's capable of. As long as I've been working with Apo, spending hours in front of the computer, and I STILL can't come up with a decent spiral. How embarrassing! And as for scripts? throws up hands Lost! Lost I tell you... It's overwhelming guys, for myself, anyway. I can drag around triangles all night (and often do) but I know I'm not using the program the way it's meant to be used. I know I've probably already said the same thing to those of you that I talk to, but unfortunately, I'm still saying it. I "dabble" with Apo. I'd love to be able to "USE" it. But without some step-by-step help, I don't see it happening. Thanks for the rant/plea space. Kat