Mark, I have to agree with Kat. I also belong to the APO mailing list, and I read everything that's written. Most of it is beyond my current knowledge. What's wrong with a bunch of newbies working their way through problems and giving each other a large dose of encouragement? We do it with other fractal programs. (and I have yet to see pizza mentioned in any of the notes on the mailing list, LOL) Ease up a little. We're not trying to steal anything....just trying to wade our way through and chatter a bit in the process.