+++ DG#101 +++ The Material Room (cont'd) +++ Page 11 ...

geep ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 2:23 PM · edited Sat, 30 November 2024 at 3:27 AM

FYI - You can find Pages 1-10 of this tutorial if you click [ HERE.](http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1663563) cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

mikeberg ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 2:31 PM

H still the first

panko ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 2:35 PM

I can't believe it! I'm just in time... for once!!!... :)

"That's another fine mess you got me in to!" -- Oliver Hardy

SoulTaker ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 2:53 PM

im in

Jay7347 ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 3:27 PM

Thanks Doc!!! -jay

geoegress ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 3:29 PM

.

TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 3:49 PM

present. but not wrapped as one though....

bip77 ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 4:37 PM

present as well.

compiler ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 5:16 PM

Not too late today. And I brought my material.

Peggy_Walters ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 6:28 PM

Thanks dr geep!

LVS - Where Learning is Fun!
http://www.lvsonline.com/index.html

aragon007 ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 7:17 PM

Thanks!!

bikermouse ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 9:29 PM

"Man wasn't meant to have his molecules spread all over the place and then reassembled halfway across the universe" - Dr McCoy in the original Star Trek on beaming up to another "thread". Anyrate, it was worth it! Thanks Geep!

Tashar59 ( ) posted Fri, 27 February 2004 at 11:22 PM

I'm here.

hauksdottir ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 12:19 AM

That last one looks like one of those hellraiser puzzleboxes... are you sure nothing is going to come out... now that naysayguy has managed to open it? :shuddering with anticipation:

catlin_mc ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 12:58 AM

Thanks for doing a class on displacement Doc. This has been annoying me, I just seem to have trouble every time I use displacement. 8) Catlin

BekaVal ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 7:31 AM

joining in -

PabloS ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 9:51 AM

.

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 9:53 AM

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 12:27 PM

Does this mean that there's no way you can make a die using a displacement map? With indented dots (or whatever they're called)? without breaking up the box?

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 1:23 PM

"Does this mean that there's no way you can make a die using a displacement map?"

Hi ernyoka1,

NO ... but you have to think "outside the box."

Can you guess what is necessary? ;=]

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 1:25 PM

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 2:56 PM

*"Does this mean that there's no way you can make a die using a displacement map?"* Hi ernyoka1, Maybe I should have said " ... you have to think **'inside'** the box." Does that help? cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

nakamuram ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 2:59 PM

All ears!!

TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 4:27 PM

Yes. I did actually think of something like this, with black edges. I just wasn't sure if they would give the opposite effect, IE an indent along the edges. So... What am I doing wrong here? Since obviously my die still splits. The cube is made in UVMapper, vertices split to prevent ballooning. There's a 2 pixel black border on all sides. Is it too small?

TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 4:29 PM

Oh and does anybody have an idea of what causes that weird black shadow on the box too?

VI_Knight ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 6:04 PM

Don't have P5 yet but i am being very attentive.

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 6:55 PM

NaySayGuy figured it out ........... sort of, ha ha. ;=] P.S. The black shadow in your render is caused by the .3q4tn[90q3[48[v3q[mv3q[03a4[egm 'gzzfiopm0nbd09j ]j -k]9jay] h]--j] j] mzz]m]0- m'p bd egg[9 n0[n

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 6:57 PM

Ok, here's a hint ... How do you make something go in the opposite direction? ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Tashar59 ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 8:31 PM

Never thought about the opposite way. How about dialing the (-)negative number? Just a guess.

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 8:51 PM

BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

geep ( ) posted Sat, 28 February 2004 at 10:54 PM

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

leather-guy ( ) posted Sun, 29 February 2004 at 2:36 AM

: compliance :

geep ( ) posted Sun, 29 February 2004 at 12:13 PM

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sun, 29 February 2004 at 2:42 PM

So is there any way to get rid of the squares that the Bucket size produces? Other than operating with a huge bucket size and watch your processor melt G For some effects, like fur, you need a displacement value of 1 or more, but it does make that annoying square effect.

Grace37 ( ) posted Thu, 25 March 2004 at 9:45 AM

i do have to admit i have a hard time keeping up with your tutorials even though i feel very entertained with the humor i cant tell where it starts and where it stops (must be the a.d.h.d)

Grace37 ( ) posted Sat, 27 March 2004 at 2:38 AM

that in no means was ment to be an insult or anything it was ment to be a compliment. im sorry if it came off badly i love your humor but i do have a hard time figureing where at first it starts and where it ends on a page :) Keep up all the awsom work im saveing all your work so i can go back to it and reread at a moments notice i cant wait to find out what comes next ^_^ i hope you post a link to it on this thread so i can find it without haveing to search like you did with this thread and the last part

bip77 ( ) posted Sat, 27 March 2004 at 8:20 AM

"So is there any way to get rid of the squares that the Bucket size produces?" Yes. Set "Minimum displacement bounds" in "Render Options" at least 0.1 higher than your highest displacement value.

TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sat, 27 March 2004 at 11:57 AM

Ah great! Thanks for that tip, bip :o)

who3d ( ) posted Sun, 30 May 2004 at 2:04 AM

Also don't forget you can put a math function between the displacement node and the 2d imag e(displacement map/bump map). For example, you can have so,me math that subtracts 0.5 from the image map. This would mean that 50% grey would be no displacement, black would be maximum displacement "into" the object and white would maximum displacement "out of" the object. I find this particularly handy as many bumpmaps are designed to have 50% grey at "surface level" with darker being indents and lighter being raised bumps - this math trick in P5 displacement achieves that effect nicely (most of the time). Cheers, Cliff

TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Sun, 30 May 2004 at 5:27 AM

Cliff.. Please bear with me. I'm a total imbicile at math. Would you mind posting a screenshot of that math node so I know that we're on the same sorta page? :o) TIA

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 5:56 AM

I'll do betetr - I'll show you. It might take me a few minutes - I tend to do this on biologicals (like the African Elephant, or Mil Dragon) so it may take some tweaking for a model which has split vertices. Back in a moment...

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 6:06 AM

OK, let's start with a bump map to use as a displacement map. Although I've created a rather simple map to show this aspect of the material room, I have deliberately (yeah, right!) chosen to base the main/default/background colour on a shade that isn't QUITE 50% grey - it's detectably lighter. This probably is a better reflection of the fact that most bump maps are generated with artistic license rather than a technical perspective (and a lot of them are just greyscale versions of the pigment map). So here's a .JPG version of the bitmap I have created for this test.

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 6:07 AM

By default, if we just attach the displacement node to this map then we'll get an exploded cube as Dr Geep showed:

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 6:10 AM

However, if we add a math function in the middle we can play around with the settings so that instead of the displacement levels of the image being 0-255 (it's a greyscale image) representing "ground level" to "uppermost level" we can introduce some negative values and move the large grey background down to "ground level" (and anything darker to "below"/within the cube). Having discovered tha tI set the background colour wrong - I mean, having found that our displacement map isn't "centered", I've tweaked my normal 0.5 until applying the displacement produces the desired restuls. Here's the settings I have used:

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 6:16 AM

When rendered with the subtraction math you get dips AND bumps from the same map (the value I settled on was 0.62 - obviously this means that the deepest depths are going to be further into the cube than the highest highs ar eout of it - you could compensate with more math but this is really just a demo of the technique, so I won't attempt any further "fixes"). Hope this helps, as this simple variation on displacement mapping has provided me endless hours of fun :) When applied to biologicals, it allows one to exaggerate displacement more - because the average/mean/whatever can be kept close to the "correct" original shape of the mesh. When displaceing only in the positive direction you have to keep the displacement factors fairly low if you're to avoid making the creature chubbier and not as well defined as the modeller originally designed it. Cheers, Cliff

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 8:17 AM

I'm returning to this thread to give a biological example using exactly the "subtract 0.5" settings that I mentioned. I've taken the MilDragon into POoser 5 to add this dual-direction displacement. While I haven't had the patience to add the math subtraction to all materials, I hope you can see that he's really quite bumpy. This is exactly the technique I'd use to, say, turn a texture for chicken legs into a displacement map for chicken legs that really makes the legs look scaley :)

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 8:27 AM

...but this one would probably have to be my "default displacement settings" render. I've used a GI light set to (IMHO) improve the look of the frame. You can of course also animate displacement - it's one way you could blow up (for example) a cube with some fairly simple settings. Cheers, Cliff

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 8:57 AM

Here's a setting for some displacement aniamtion. Please bear in mind that Poser 5's displacement feature is REALLY meant to be a repalcement/upgrade for "bump mapping". It is NOT meant to be a repalcement for a 3D modleling application! As such, texturing items "built" with displacement mapping would be hard work and except for using procedural texture would likely dissapoint. For example - on the cube image/animation, consider how a texture would be applied to the side of the sunken circle and the raised square with "hard" edges. Ouch! Texture Smear! Cheers, Cliff

who3d ( ) posted Mon, 31 May 2004 at 9:48 AM

Bear in mind also that if I'd used a higher resolution texture, the fetures (circle etc.) would be smoother. I removed backfaces in this render because I thought it looked mildly more interesting. Cheers, Cliff

butterfly_fish ( ) posted Thu, 03 June 2004 at 2:54 AM

Aw, Jeez, Cliff. You're doing math again... :-/ -Heidi

One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. -River Tam

who3d ( ) posted Thu, 03 June 2004 at 7:47 AM

Ya - but only real simple math (simple enough that I can understand it). Anything much more complex than I've done here I'd prototype in a spreadsheet - so that I can see the range of values produced over a series of frames. Hmm, haven't done that for a while - shows how limited I've been in my explorations of the material room :( Cheers, Cliff

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