And consider the following thoughts. If Poser brought in tons of money, there would be resources to make it work well. If this niche attracted lots of customers, there would be multiple vendors, and at least one would be stable, and we'd all be using it, the others would have died. Why do I mention this? To shed some light on why things are the way they are. Not to excuse the release of shit, but in hopes people will look deeper at situations. Try to grasp why things are the way they are. Writing complex software is unbelievably hard. Consider the argument about the complexity of games, and how they are mostly stable, so why shouldn't Poser be? Quite right; though early PC games (actually, Apple II, Commodore PET, and Tandy) were ridiculously simplistic by today's tandards. However, games make money. So more games were made, and we learned lots of techniques for making them, and developed tools to help deal with the complexity. Well-trained teams of people carry out every aspect of game development today. It is unrealistic to compare that to Poser. Again, I underscore that I say this not to "excuse" Poser. I just wish people would see that their expectations may be unrealistic. What surprises me, is that it isn't until now that someone is finally developing what looks to be an effective competitor to Poser [DAZ Studio]. Despite the wealth of characters & clothes available for Poser, and how handy it is to load these, apply textures, pose -- are there really so few people who will buy such a toy/tool, that no one else bothered to make a better one? I guess it is because most of those with use for such, use the high-end tools... BTW, I am tackling the programming tasks needed to make a character animation tool. Bit by bit. If CL fails to fix the bugs by Poser 6, well then I'll integrate my pieces into DAZ Studio, which should be stable sometime in 2004...