"The fact is, if the end result is art... it doesn't really matter how you made it." "Is a sculpture any less of an artist because he didn't create the stone? Make the chisel?" I'm far from an expert on "tubes" but as I understand it they're small(ish) pictures which have been grabbed from art not originally made by the "tubeist" and use to create images of their own. I've seen such "tubeists" lynche d(usually in absentia) on this very forum. Query:- Is what THEY do art, and if not then why not? It sometiems seems to me tha tin many ways we inhabit a middle ground, call it "level 2". Those on level 3 look down on us, and we despise them for their snobbery. We in turn look down on mere level 1 people, because after all they are lesser beings and not even in the same class as we level 2 people. "outside of the obviouse use of poser...." If I were told that an image of mine were "outside the obvious use of" any particular program - Poser or otherwise - I MIGHT wonder if the comment was a compliment. It might suggest that instead of going for just the obvious easy application of the program (for Poser that's probably a T&A image, I'd assume - or maybe a portrait), I have put in extra thought to come up with something a little bit different, a little bit "special". This doens't happen often enough to me :( Cheers, Cliff