Most of these comments appear to be defending the use of Poser as a tool for creating art. I could be wrong but I don't think that is the actual issue in question. I've seen a fair amount of Poser based or assisted work that I would call very artistic. I've also seen a lot that drown in a sea of look alike images that appear to be closer to some form of mass production than anything else. But in most cases there has been at least an attempt to produce an artistic image, whether successful or not. But when you browse through the galleries of those "other" sites it is very common to see images of just a bare model. No effort was made to incorporate it in a scene and often the model isn't textured or posed in an even slightly interesting manner. Although it may not be stated outright, clearly those sites are more about demonstrating the art of modeling rather than the art of imagery. As such, there is an implicit understanding that the models used were created by the one who posted the image. So one should not be surprised when an admired piece of work is abruptly dismissed when subsequently revealed as "Poser". It is not so much that the piece is rejected for its artistic merits but that it is perceived as having being offered under false pretenses. We've seen the same thing here when a new Poser product appears that everyone absolutely loves. Then it turns out that it is merely a tweaked version of someone else's model or texture and the public reaction is to heap richly deserved scorn upon the perpetrator. So if I posted an image using Victoria 3 the general attitude would be "So what? Go home." But if I were the one who actually modeled V3 and posted it with the comment "Look what I created for the Poser market." I would probably be swamped with compliments. I've seen this issue discussed on some of those other sites and most said they had no objection to someone using Poser models provided this was stated up front. But this attitude isn't always made clear. The result is that the site "newbies", often fairly young, think that it is fashionable to disparage things like Poser and Bryce. Wanting to be accepted, they bow to perceived peer pressure and thus become quite vocal in mocking these programs. This just serves to further obscure the true objection and generates even more confusion. It boils down to this: You may be a great musician but over here we're talking about cooking and you're a lousy chef. So don't waste our time. Believing that everyone "over there" thinks art cannot be created using Poser is to believe that they are all fools. While this may be true of some of them it is certainly not true of all of them. - Jack