I can see why Rhino is so popular - I tested the demo a while back, and nurbs is easier than boxmodeling. I think it in general leaves a way, way too dense mesh, but thats me - I like it tidy, and Max allows me to do that, once you've customised the UI to be somewhat less of a pain in the ass in preferences. Keihan, is the last comment in your post aimed at me ? See - I don't see myself as an artist. I see myself as a dilettante, maybe a tinkerer in 3D. Maybe thats the difference between me and a lot of the thread participants; I don't lay claim to having any of my images being called art, or insist on having them taken as seriously as i.e something by the oft mentioned Michaelangelo. Thats why I also dont give much of a shit when some troll on a rampage decides to visit my gallery because I said something bad about someone else's image, or said what was wrong with it. But again - a lot of the discussion in this thread ended up as a Poser-defense for many, and not an answer as in why people -think- the imagery created with the help of Poser is seen as crap. ~S