My loyalties lie with the community, not with either side of the squabble. What I would like to see is the reestablishment of the community on one, well run forum. I'm tired of all this subtle manipulating bullshit. Let's get real open and honest here. Jack, if you need the support of the community to set up a new place, give us the details and ask for our support. We already know you will do a good job of running it, we need to know what your vision is (and we'll probably want some guarantees that our interests will be protected at this stage :). Edgenet, tell us your plans for the future of this site. We're being asked to trust, but we're not being trusted. I don't care much what happened in the past anymore. I want to know what both sides are planning for the future. Let's drop the accusations and explanations and get some straight answers about where this is going. Berge