Firefly o.k. ... really the most realistic renders come from nice lighting and especially texture/surface work. I've gotten fed up tho with Firefly, altough quite passable, does not have radiosity solutions, cautics, etc. I have worked long hours in a feeble attempt to prove that Firefly stacks up as a renderer, but always feel that well, that Shade program would literally blow that same picture away. I would like to know more about how e-frontier plans to allow poser import to Shade. I hope they don't leave them so seperate that we'll have to go thru hell to get a poser scene in there. If I knew what I knew now, I would look for Shade, because, even tho the Firefly can do much better than the p4 renderer, it still shows a glaring lack of quality because of very important missing algorithms. So p4 makes passable pictures in much less time. Stick with that unless you have zounds of time to get a pic that's somewhat better but prob not worth the extra effort.