So THAT'S what TIR is (don't think I've got it in Bryce 3.1 (it moves). :-)) And yes - I agree, the version w/o TIR looks better. (Trying to sort out "why?" in my head, I reckon it's because in real life you very rarely come across TIR; so when you DO see it it sort of looks unreal. Must be great for certain special effects though.) Just my usual mental muttering... Cheers, Diolma