GEESH! I think it is good to discuss the issue of the use of or sale of information garnered by e-sites. As the owner of my own personal information it is left open as to where the money should go for my information. In other words if there was negotiations going on about selling me I think it is only fair to have that negotiation made known to me before hand. Whether Zygote or Curious labs had an interest in buying me as a set of data-fields is something that should be disclosed. Now that we all know that we are part of a contemplated sale, I think it is clear that the type of disclosure that is now being made is quite necessary given the legal issues. The thing that made the "community" a sale-able commodity goes beyond the information as Liz observes, these two entities at least would have most of this information anyway; we are after all a community that enjoys products from both. What this list does do is generate ongoing interest from the products through our creations. So in my view this particular "database" is valuable for the "community spirit" generated by the forum, that is what seems to me to be at the root of the whole sale. That spirit, to me, has been generated by some factors that have nothing to do strictly with the information, it has to do with the willingness to share a passion for the combination of art, interest, technical expertise, and actual creations. That "combination' is apparent in the excitement of using our coupons from zygote to purchase that model that we just could not get, the new and interesting things can create with that piece of technical advice, the feeling of warmth one might get from giving that clue that lets another understand how to get more out of the program...not to mention the feedback that the vendors get by all the comments. Liz, what my point was leading to the importance of the individuals of the community in what is "marketable" and how responsible we need to be to remain informed of what is going on. Quite frankly I am surprised that there is any blame-shifting based on the privacy disclosure that we now are told, since this type of thing had to have been operative for the "sale" anyway, we are just now being updated of the legality of the intent to sell "us". It seems apparent that this whole thing was going to occur behind the scenes and we were going to be told how wonderful it was afterwards. Now we know, I think your observations are valid, your comments though seem to blame one principal or the other. To me the issue is the same on all sides it has nothing to do with loyalty except that unless the "spirit" of the community remains there is nothing that is saleable. Also it remains to be seen what "legal" liability exists since these are relatively new problems for which the legal system would be a lengthy and expensive as a choice. Even in terms of legal arguments, it seems to me that your point is the legal point.....should there have been disclosure to us the individuals of the existence or potential of being sold ahead of time? Under your exact argument the answer is yes. That is my point. Quite frankly it takes all things as we see, in combination, to create this community. The software, the server, the people to administrate the lists, and the "us", you me and everyone else. One question that has bothered me is exactly what about all the people who had also invested time and expertise as administrators in the past, we have seen bits and pieces of the poltics of the disputes when they left...and yes Willow too. Would this sale have paid them back for their investment? Should we have been part of deciding how the sale of us was to be divvied up? Should we be treated like shareholders in a corporation, get an accounting of where the store money actually goes? Should we become more responsible for the "board of directors" who seem to have the power to sell us? I do not know anything more than as community members we need to understand a whole lot more about how we became a commodity, take a bit of power from that and see what we can do to stabilize the forum. It really is our forum, it is our information, the businesses operate on money profits, we really not informed on what the expenses are of our forum. So maybe everyone could consider how this whole thing can teach us to become responsible as a community if what we do not want is to be sold to pay our bills.