biggert - there was a thread about using the cloth room for manipulating hair objects about 2 weeks ago. The general consensus (with which I concur - I tried a few experiments myself), seemed to be that hair objects (as in prop/figure type hair, not dynamic hair - don't get dynamic hair anywhere NEAR the cloth room - it'll shrink in the wash:-)) erm, what was I saying.. Oh, yes. Hair objects not good subjects for cloth room. The geometry doesn't work well there, you have to constrain bits to stop the hair sliding sideways off the head, and the results don't look good at all. Usually. Of course, you might strike lucky, and god bless yer if you do (and post what you did!) (and when you have conquered the cloth room, you can continue into the hair room. I've got the hair-room scheduled for somewhere around July/August 2005...) Cheers, Diolma