No offense what so ever taken beatle trekkie, and I'll be honest too_ yes, they are 3d models (they don't lay eggs,fluff their feathers or any of the wonderful things that these birds do) and therefore are subject to some of the limitations that 3D modelling imposes on us. They're my attempt to get as close as I can to a 'representation' of a macaw within the limits of my software, my skill and my observation. If they give people pleasure and inspire them to produce artwork that they are content with, then I'm a happy bunny. I watched with dismay the similar debate that went on in the millenium horse thread and felt terribly sorry for the modeller in question. Undoubtedly Poser users are becoming more demanding in their search for reality with the models they purchase _ and that's no bad thing because it drives us modellers to strive to achieve that illusion of reality. The stakes are clearly higher with the horse because of its high profile but 'experts' must realise that by and large we modellers are NOT experts in the things we try to represent_ I certainly spend a lot of time, energy researching my subjects (and yes I have been face to beak with a 'real' macaw_ my textures are based on my own photographs of the 'blue & yellow and the scarlet I spent an afternoon photographing and observing). My motivation in producing the model?_ well I think the birds themselves are exquisite_(I'm off to see them in Peru later this year!) I believed I could make the best macaw model currently available_at some time in the future someone will do a better job and I'll be content for mine to drop off his perch and join the bleedin' choir invisible. btw in case this sounds like a rant (and I'm sorry if it does) I would like to say thankyou ALL for your kind comments and including the photos of your birds (which are wonderful and an inspiration). Calypso has sent me some lovely picture of her cockatiel which I hope to work up in to a texture. If anyone else has any photos they are willing to share_ I'd love to do an African Grey for example_just IM me. Nigel