I just had an interesting conversation with one of our European members regarding how Europeans view this issue in regards to art...he said that most Europeans truly do not understand the American view on this because they've never been here.He lived here for several years in the 80's and rightfully pointed out that most churches here have nude depictions of children in statues,imagery,stained glass windows and that even most bibles contain some level of nudity.Europeans tend to have the view from Americans crying out about the loss of freedoms and libertys regarding sexual imagery that there's a ban on all such images...from his view and rightfully so,its more an issue of Americans trying to exercise some restraints on the libertys we promote and that most Europeans either don't have or take for granted.He reminded me of ancient Greece and Rome...look at those peoples then and compare them to their contemporaries and you find a huge difference in moral values!

He was quite upset that many European commentors have made all Europeans look as if they condone not only child nudity but child pornography...like myself,he believes that they just aren't in an informed position and that the constant reference to cherubs is an indicator of this.

Cheryl brings up another interesting point as pedophiles do not need images of nude children to get their jollies...nor do they have to be images of real children.Pedophilia is a sickness and the issue before us isn't that we're feeding this sickness...the issue is what we are doing as a society in regards to right and wrong.

Some people make a lot of the fact that we don't allow nude images of children because it protects our children...at no point does it protect anyone as laws cannot prevent these crimes from taking place!These laws are designed to stop those who "perpetuate" these crimes by viewing or presenting the material for viewing...thats why the law goes after site owners and anyone caught viewing such images-other laws are called into play for those who actually commit the crime!Likewise,the law equally applys to images "portraying" children for the same reason...it perpetuates or acts as a supplicant to the real thing.We as a society ban many things that most are grateful for...scat for instance,I don't care if its real or not real,I don't want to see anyone taking a dump rofl!!

People who say its not real are merely making excuses,its not whether the image is real or not but what it represents!I make a challenge to these people to do an image of a cg adult having sex with a 3 year old child-every one of them refuses because on a personal level they would never make such an image.But why not?The reason is that their own sense of morality won't allow it...no matter how much they argue,they know its wrong from their own sense of right and wrong-and "it does not matter if its real or not"!They aren't arguing right or wrong...they're arguing the right to do it period!!Even if most will not do it,having that right will guarantee that many who have no such inhibitions will...at times every society sacrifices certain personal libertys simply to prevent this from happening!Even if it fails to totally stop it...it provides a means for dealing with it and helps a society establish the standards that define it.

If the end goal of learning is genius...why are most geniuses failures at learning?