I only ever generate batches of ten. Then I spend hours playing with one of those (in all the ways you describe) in order to get something that speaks to me. Nine out of ten times I trash the whole project and start again. It's probably the reason I post very few. I always thought 2D was a matter of getting the "pieces" put in the right place and that anyone could, with the right amout of practice, get good results...but fractals have a life of their own! They respond in ways that are unexpected and truely frustrating at times. Then when you get something that really sings, your computer crashes. It's the challenge. I am currently wrangling my budget to get UF. I want and need more than just pretty flames. Miriah