heh, storm in a tea-cup. I have to agree with Dave on this - I don't think black bars would be any improvement (probably worse actually). I would like to stress again that I don't believe your product or your image are in any way "the cause" for this thread or how dire it's got - Renderosity threads have something of a habit of wandering. Neither, incidentally, do I see Dave's wry inquiry as to how far down this version of "Politically Correct" we've gone, and where we'll end up, as necessarily going this way either. Threads have a way of unravelling all by themselves at times. My apologies to you both for any upset that my contributions may have added to your lives :( As to my being an influent member of Renderosity (yeah, I read some of that response) - LOL! I wish! Very few people - almost no-one - in Renderosity would even recognise my nick in a thread, much less pay heed to my comments/suggestions! Cheers, Cliff