When Keith started this thread, I wrote a lengthy bit of ramble that made very little sense, because I didn't know what I was talking about. Since then- and especially today, I've been working feverishly in Apophysis to come up with something presentable enough to post. I've been aided by tutorials and tips 'n tricks, etc. I'm here to report XD & UF fractals come easier to me than do good flames- particularly stand-alone flames. Maybe I'm making it too complicated, but most of my results leave me cold. I'm definitely attracted to flames..particularly the soft, ethereal type.