ming, I didn't call you a novice, I stated that the intent of those particular controls were aimed at novices... not that only novices would use them, or find them useful. I'm sorry you take that as an insult, it had nothing to do with you, or anyone in particular for that matter, it was simply clarification of intent. Some folks like that type of control, some like the scientific approach... some like Lightwave, Mirai, some MAX, others Maya, some Cinema 4D, trueSpace, Rhino, Carrara... the list goes on and on. Point is, you can't please everyone, but you can certainly try to provide a couple alternatives, which is what we are doing. If it doesn't suit your tastes, ok, but there is no need for the insults. -Rob