Right, I messed around with that. That did make a huge difference, but it's not quite there. It's closer than my Mechsim try with POVRay though. The biggest issue is that the cloth still 'slumps' back to it's original shape. If it was one punch it would be OK to stop the clock at the right point, but I'm trying to actually show somthing pushing a door open and putting in a deep gouge at the same time. I found you can't change the choreographed group as a keframe, if I could I could just frame by frame fix the cloth. Any ideas on settings for a 'metalic' cloth? I really need to do plastic colissions but so far can't really do this with anything! == John ==