(my aforementioned Countach model, done in RDS 5) Thanks for the comments and critique everybody! I hate to sound like an old fart, (I'm only 30) but I've been using the RDS vertex modeler as my main modeler since before there even were NURBS! And the new features in carrara 3.0(new at least, compared to RDS 5) make it a breeze. (For instance, to extrude in RDS 5, you go to Selection:Extrude, then you have to tell it EXACTLY how far to extrude, even if you don't know. it would only extrude straight from the normal, and sometimes it wouldn't even do that right. + & - kept switching, etc.etc.etc....) I learned to live with all the quirks, most of which have now been ironed out, but I keep finding new ones for me to learn to live with. Early on, like most everyone, I'm sure, I used the spline modeler almost exclusively. But I soon found that as the complexity of a model increased, the difficulty level for me increased exponentially. I found that I could easily do everything that the spline modeler did in the vertex modeler, and more. (although I still use the spline modeler for spirals, and I haven't played around much with Carrara's spline modeler to see if there's anything new there..) The only modeler I've tried that I enjoy more than the vertex modeler is Animation:Master's spline patches, but I'm not happy with the render times in A:M. I suppose, if I can ever make enough to afford Rhino, I may buy it, but I'll have to try it out first. I want to play around more with Amapi 5, since it came free, but I can't seem to find adequate tutelage or time to experiment. I could probably rant on all night, but I'm starting to sound like Cranky Kong, (Back in my day, we only got three lives for a quarter, and we usually lost two of 'em before we could figure out what to do...) And every minute I type is another minute that I'm not working on my contest entry. ( I just gotta win Anything Grows, I just gotta...) Before I go, I want to say: A. If anyone needs help with the vertex modeler, I'm here, and 2, Yes, Mateo, I actually learned murcielago from Dora the Explorer of all places, but do you know why it's called that? 2a. For some reason, after Lamborghini was taken over (originally by Chrysler I believe) All the names of new cars are in spanish rather than italian (which is usually a difference of a letter or two..) The first spanish name? Diablo... 2b. There are two odd shaped flaps, or wings toward the rear of the car that open up. These are actually intake scoops, and the murcielago is the first lamborghini to have hideaway ones, but you can see them evolveing if you look at the countach and the diablo. Now, for Double Bonus points: Who knows what Countach means in italian?