Hi Mike! You really have to play with that material editor :) When I first started using Vue I avoided it too. I was a former Bryce user and Bryce's material editor really turned me off to procedural textures, believe me! But Vue's is really easy to understand and you can really create some great stuff by mixing materials. I'm not an expert on Vue or anything, but I've been using it for quite awhile, as have a lot of us here in the forum, so if you have any questions, you know where to ask them :) Happy rendering! Laurie