Well this forum seems to have stuck to the original question - over in Poser Land loads of people have thought I was attacking their right to produce art which I definately was not. I do agree that 3D packages have their limitations but surely that is why E-On has gone to great lengths to produce an update to allow us to import Transmapped hair and now, with Mover 5, dynamic clothing etc. If we all said we were happy to draw in our clothes and hair where would be the incentive to produce these updates. Now i certainly don't have any connection with E-On software but i would sure like to shake the hand of all the developers there that put that package together and to them I say 'Keep Going'!! Some of us want you to get to the stage where anyone can make a realistic movie with just Vue (and maybe a 90GHz machine!) Thanks for all your feedback - its been really interesting.