I don't think there is no need to apologize for post work and I do understand the Devian art doesn't recognize even Vision of Chaos as a fractal program or didn't. I do not feel adobe or psp should be listed in any other way but as post processing. However, I do have a problem with other programs being used in a fractal when 50% or more is the final image itself (example) Bryce for one. Adding a poser figure is partly used in post processing to give the fractal additional realism however it only enhances the original fractal where Bryce for example takes on much more then just fractals or post processing of any kind. Believe me I admire anyone who can do superb work on fractals only and do not need any type of post processing.. However, those of us who do use some type of post processing does that not make us as good as the purrest fractal artist?? it's all in the eyes of the beholder. Another fine line especially when most who do not do post processing have been doing fractal for 15 plus years, verses people like myself who may only have less then a year into fractals with the ultimate goal of not using any type of post processing in time. We all have to learn somewhere, not everyone is perfect not even those who do not do post work I'd rather view an image with post work that has made that image complete then to see fractal done with no post work yet are dirty with gradients, or blurry, or that look like they were just tossed around in a true fractal program . Again what is considered a fractal I've been told as long as the main focus is on the fractal that is all that is considered... So don't be so quick to judge us that do use post work. yet bask within yourself those of you that do NOT use post work and be proud of what you do. I like Terry am a bit over welmed by this on going decussion of post processing verses fractal purity... After all ask yourself can you truely believe everything that a poster lists under the phrase no post work????? I only believe that statement to be true with very few true artists here. thats my penny's worth Carolyn