Thank you for the feedback Grimjerk, and very nice toon render! I will check those lines in the back of the top and see if I can do anything with them. I knew they were there, but didn't think they were an outstanding problem. As for shorts pulling strangely on legs as you pointed out. Well, is sort of normal that they would do that. Even though its not exactly what you would want the shorts to do, the clothing is doing exactly what is supposed to do. This is one of the reasons that Poser is not a perfect technology. Also, I must add while I am on the subject, that the top pulls strangley on the back during chest bend poses for the exact reason as stated above. The top is doing exactly what it should do, but in this case it gives an unwanted effect. thank you marty