One figure I think could make it if it ever was released is Maximus by Anton. I was looking at the threads about his developement recently and he has something the DAZ people don't have, and that is arms that look like they come from a real person. DAZ has turned me into a Dazaholic in the short time I've been actively using Poser, and I love all the main DAZ figures, but there are still certain things I dislike about them which haven't as yet been addressed such as the arms thing and muscle placement. As for "stretching the limits" of what we've got, I believe that it takes time, and as folks become more acustomed to what they have then folks will push their figures further. Catlin