Maybe we could have a new forum where people discuss what went wrong with the old OT forum. That way we could clear out all these threads here, and get back to business as usual. I don't know why they decided to close the old OT forum, but all these specious analogies aren't gonna do any good AFAIK. That's one thing you learn from studying the ancient Greek philosophers: the weakest form of argument is the use of analogies. In argument by analogy, anything you encounter is limited to what you already knew, so you are held in a kind of dark-ages limbo of ignorance, from which you can never escape, until you move on to legitimate forms of logic and discourse.