er .. clothe FIRST pose LAST. I really suggest building the character in the default position. This saves tedious hours of jiggling clothing props into place on a posed figure. After the figure is built, save in default and then pose. I agree, the manuals are woefully inadequate and written in some other langauge. They do explain everything but they use the most unexpected langauge to do so. Even knowing what I was doing in poser, it took me several tries to puzzle out what the manual was saying about the poser5 face room. My class may not be the most advanced thing around, but at least its written in plain language! Poser has some inflexible 'Rules', mostly to do with file placement. And then theres some less strict rules, like 'clothing can only go on the model its made for' (which can be fiddled around with if you're bored or desperate) and then theres guidelines like 'Hair should be used only on the model its meant for, but really you can use it anywhere' Gearcy - Why thank you! blush I do my best :) Lyrra