What I do in this kind of situation (just been through the wringer myself with this) is I divide up the scene in segments left to right or in layers front to back - and composit in PShop or similar. So my most recent scene took 9 (NINE!!) renders in layers and then I put it back together in PShop. And it looked just like I wanted. That time it HAD to be done in P5 Firefly for reflections, P4 couldn't do it. The previous scene was 4 renders left to right - left background, foreground, right and far right BG. Because there were so many characters, 13 I think it was, plus the whole scen itself. Just a longer way to get there, but it works. :] Fish