Hi Nruddock, Thanks for the link, Ive got it saved and will give it a shot, im going the newbie route first and seeing what I can do with existing light items. The render ive got already has a complex global light set and Ive played with both glowball and ultimateFIRE now in the existing render, it seems that both the glowball and the FIRE steal or null out some of the existing lights? Is there a way to use both light effects or have I reached some light object limit in Poser4 propack? Thanks again, Logan