In any case, I'll second most of what I have read in that thread. Yes, Poser users are often, too often spat at, mocked, and called many pretty names but the one of "artist". Why? Because, I think, we use models that in most cases we do not build ourselves. At some point, every Poser user will us a texture, a geometry or a lightset created by someone else. This gives us, wrongly I agree, the reputation of a bunch of Playskool kiddies. It's very wrong, it's short-sighted, but that's how it is. Now. Just a question. Do these guys who model their stuff within and for 3ds, with and for Maya, make something that deserve to be called art more than what we do? Certainly not. Aristotelician philosophy states that art is imitation. Somehow, it's true, whatever an artist draws, renders, sculpts, he/she will not create absolutely new-to-this-world characters or anything. What changes is the tool and the interpretation of the thematics. Now, if a Maya pro tells me "I am more skilled than you when it comes to building a 3d character" I will agree, that's absolutely true. If he tells me "I am a better artist than you" I'll laugh at him. For starts, art is subjective, "A" will love my work and "B" will say it's crap. As for the very ase of art, ideas not to name them, I know many a skilled 3d modeller or acrylics paintyer artist who can only come up with shitty concepts. Sensibility is the key. Pride is a trap. Long ago in Japan, the legend says, an extremely skilled calligrapher who could write anything on anything, met a small kid. The kid asked him "please, write something for me on the river". The calligrapher wrote on the river. So did the kid, to the artist's surprise... Then the kid asked "write domething on the skies" and so did the artist, who wrote "RYU" (dragon). Then the kid noticed that a stroke was missing. The calligrapher told the kid "put the last stroke, if you would like to." The kid put the last stroke... and the word "Dragon" turned into a real dragon who flew away and faded into the skies... The kid revealed himself to the calligrapher as being the Amida Buddha and vanished. Moral of the story? Whatever you do, and even if you do it very well... there'll be someday a guy who can pick up your tools and outdo you. I'll accept people spitting on Poser the day they can use them themselves in a perfect way, and the day they'll use a tool I cannot learn myself. Ignore the idiots. The more you wanna convince them, the less they listen. It's not anymore about truth or art: it's just about who's got the bigger schlong, for these guys.